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the baby comes in 5 months, and I need to make up my mind about shots. I just plain dont know enough about it to decide either way.
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Sat, January 3, 2009 - 7:20 PMHighly recommended reading www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Bo.../0316017507
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Sun, January 4, 2009 - 8:20 AMI really liked that book too.
We decided not to vaccinate, after a lot of research, reading, and thought. There is a lot of material out there, and for both sides of the argument, it can get a bit crazy. My advice is to put a lot of thought into the decision, and don't let people pressure you either way. (but it is good to hear what people think- just not the crazies who make you feel horrid) I had people who had very strong views either to vax or not- it made the whole thing a lot more difficult. Trust that you will make the very best decision for your family and child. I know a lot of people don't like my decision- and that is fine.
The book Yewni suggested is great- written by a doctor, he really breaks down each vaccine and the pros and cons, and ingredients. Really great if you are thinking of just doing a few vaccines. He even has example vax schedules, for the whole vax schedule or modifed. He is pro-vax,, but presents all the info fairly.
Anyone know any other good reads?
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Sun, January 4, 2009 - 6:12 PMI loved Aviva Jill Romm's Vaccination: A Thoughtful Parent's Guide
www.amazon.com/Vaccinatio.../ref=sr_1_1
She too doesn't go nuts with fearmongering the way so many people do on this subject.
She offers information about how to do the best you can on the path you choose: how to recognize illnesses and how to treat them (and when to go to the doctor) how to support your family's immune function overall with nutrition and other lifestyle choices, and also how to work to try to prevent side effects if you do choose to vaccinate (and how to help vaccines do what they're intended to do.)
Robert Mendelsohn's writing on the subject seemed pretty far out and wacky to me when I first read them, but the more I research and learn, the more I find myself seeing eye to eye with him. Like him, I decided a few vaccines were useless right away, crossed a few more off the list after further reading, and then ended up taking a long time before I decided to skip Tetanus, as well.
I recommend his book How to Raise Healthy Children in Spite of Your Doctor
www.amazon.com/Raise-Heal.../ref=sr_1_1
He wrote it quite some time ago, but the concepts he covers are pretty universal: don't fear the fever (with full explanation) is a big one that comes to mind.
There is a lot to consider when it comes to vaccines.
I don't want to debate or try to change anyone's mind.
This is the sort of thing that is up to the parents to research and decide.
That said, I'll give my reasons we skipped vaccinations in a nutshell:
I don't like to use medicines unless I am confident that they are 1) needed 2) safe and 3) effective.
1) needed?
Many vaccines are intended as cheap solutions to bigger problems. It's cheaper to give kids a shot to prevent measles than it is to make sure every kid gets enough quality Vitamin A in their diet. We eat a good diet, so I don't see that we need any help fighting off the measles!
Adequate dietary Selenium is another immune-boosting tool, as is limiting sugar.
I feel very blessed and privileged to be able to feel this confidence.
Some illnesses can strike anyone at any time, but the right information about treating them makes all the difference. Whooping cough/Pertussis doesn't have to be a big deal at all, when the parents have information about the amazing efficacy of Sodium Ascorbate in fighting it off.
Other vaccines target illnesses that are most always mild. Often this same diseases will confer genuine lifetime immunity, unlike vaccinations.
Here's a fascinating discussion of Nutrition and Immunology:
www.mothering.com/discussio...thread.php
And of course, breastfeeding confers all sorts of tailor-made immunities.
Studies have even shown that adults who were breastfed as children are far less susceptible to meningitis!
2) safe?
It's hard to figure this one out. While we can learn what *may* be in some or most vaccines, the actual ingredients lists are considered "proprietary information," so they don't have to tell us!
Very common ingredients include mercury, aluminum, egg protein, nut oils, and aborted human fetal tissue:
Metals intended to provoke an immune reaction, foods that can cause fatal allergic reactions, and... human ingredients.
I don't know the answer to this one- but I just can't accept something that's not guaranteed 100% safe if I'm definitely not sure it's both necessary and 100% effective.
DO ask to see the inserts for any vaccines you may consider. There is a printed list of warnings, contraindications, and side effects that comes with every vaccine. There is no excuse for a doctor's office to not provide it, especially if you request it. The lists of known side effects often include some very scary, serious problems. This hasn't been the focus of my research, so I don't have much to offer for links or books. A few personal experiences in my own life have led me to deeply doubt the true safety of many vaccines.
I remember reading that nations that delay vaccines until children reach age two have much lower rates of adverse reactions, so that is another option to consider: delayed and/or selective vaccines. With our first child, while we were still doing the research, I decided to delay everything until our daughter turned two. As it turned out, those two years gave me enough time to feel informed enough to make the decision not to do any at all.
3) effective?
Check out these graphs that illustrate how strange it is that vaccines got the credit where it wasn't exactly due:
www.vaccinationdebate.com/web1.html
and these (scroll to the end of the article)
www.tetrahedron.org/articles...cacy.html
Many vaccines seem to be very effective, but only for a relatively short period of time. Nobody can predict how long an immune-boosting effect with linger. Again, the illness itself tends to confer lifelong immunity, while the shot wears off invisibly with time.
Today's flu shots have not improved the mortality rate for influenza at all. The CDC's response? Vaccinate MORE people. Hmm...
Here's a little collection of quotes I just dug up from an old file of mine:
"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good."---Dr. J. Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine Control Officer and research virologist, US FDA
Immunizations not only did not prevent any infectious diseases, they caused more suffering and more deaths than has any other human activity in the entire history of medical intervention. It will be decades before the mopping-up after the disasters caused by childhood vaccination will be completed."--- Dr. Viera Scheibner, PhD
Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts. William S. Burroughs
"We do know that to have serious allergies, a person has to have high levels of IgE antibodies, and to have a Th2 skewed immune system. And we also know that aluminum-adjuranted injected vaccines don't activate the first defenses (Th1) that infections normally trigger in the cellular immune system. Instead they activate the last defenses of the humoral system, antibodies, which are preferentially Th2. That is the job that aluminum is designed to do. But no one has looked to see if the increasing numbers of vaccines, by skewing the baby's immune system to exactly the state it needs to be to provoke serious allergy, are implicated."
(Just a Little Prick by Hilary Butler, page 445)
"It's a double-edged sword when you stimulate the immune system." Bali Pulendran
"Approximately 15,000 cases of adverse events following vaccination are reported in the United States each year. This number exceeds the current reported incidence of childhood vaccine-preventable diseases." From the CDC website
Mothering Magazine's forum on the topic is an AMAZING resource.
Check it out:
www.mothering.com/discussio...isplay.php
Best wishes to you and yours!
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 5:44 PMhow do kids get into school w/o immunizations? -
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 6:31 PMIt really depends on the school. In most public schools, you can sign a religious waiver. The only other waiver is a medical one which is pretty hard to get- it states that you can't be immunized because it would cause a serious or life threatening reaction (ie, you're allergic to an ingredient or you've had a severe reaction in the past).
A religious exemption is easy. Problem is with a private institution or daycare they can set their own rules. Most large day cares will not allow vaccination exemptions. We have our son in a typical hippy portland alternative school so they would be shocked if he *was* immunized. I'd bet that most private schools would be open to a discussion on it.
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 10:02 PMhere is info on exemption...
www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm
it IS possible to get your child into school without vaccines!
vaclib.org is a very good website to browse through....
we also decided to delay vaccines (if not skip them altogether)....i also recommend the vaccine book by dr. sears. -
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 12:56 AMin California, there are religious, medical, or ersonal beliefs wavers, so no docrrinal test necessary at this time. and private day care and preschools are mandated by law to follow the same state guidelines, so they may complain or look askance, but they must regard a vax card with the personal philisophical exemptio sign-off as a completed vax card. epriod. it;s been through the courtts.
I'm not totally anti vX BUT I did choose not to immunize; Lia had her first and only vaccine at age 13 , tetanus only, for a trip to Costa RI ca which does require it.
she's attended pubilc and private schools and no school has said anbything though I know some parents look askance.
sje didn't even get a touch of pertussis when I was sick from i a couple eyars ago (outbreak at the day care center for the high school where i worked at the time.)
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 5:06 AMWell, the vaccine book by dr. sears is on its way from Amazon.com,as is a pamphlet from my trusted friends hippie pediatrician. Like, I dont have a million other things to read before this baby get here!
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 8:14 AMYou've gotten plenty of anti-vaccination information, so on the other side of the coin:
www.cdc.gov/vaccines/spe...s/parents.htm
www.who.int/topics/vaccines/en/
www.cispimmunize.org/fam/jen...ter.html
www.cispimmunize.org/
It's good to hear both sides of the story.
Congrats on your baby on the way. -
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 8:22 AMThe Sears book is definitely NOT anti-vaccination. The doctor himself is pro-vaccination but he presents the facts in a very balanced way and does not try to tell parents what to do. -
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 11:03 AMI chose the book you suggested Yewni, because I know you and trust your judgement. -
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 5:22 PMThanks Hunny. I definitely try not to tell people what they should do. Hopefully we all can get as informed as possible and then feel good about the decisions we make for our families whether it be pro-vax or no-vax or an alternative/selective vax schedule.
I've opted out of a lot of vaccinations so far but have gotten a few. That may change later.
I'm ordering this book from Amazon because someone else recommended it to me. www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Gu...355-1047016
Not sure what it is like yet but I'll let you know if I find it helpful. -
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 10:51 PMit's odd, I got A the basic set of vac, but I'm not doing flu shots. I also felt that the benefits to us outweighed what I felt were the both vague yet tinged with hysteria risks of vac. I looked carefully at the autism statistics, read up, and then was confident that vac were the right thing to do for us. My hubby loves to travel, out there travel, and I'm not taking a child to Guatemala without some preventative measures in place. Plus, Portland OR has a few problems..it sits on the Major West Coast transit corridor, the I5, and there are many many children who are NOT vaccinated. If I was a homebody who lived in a stable population with little exposure, I'd consider reducing vac, but I work at a College, and my hubby works at a Hospital. Travel and sick person central. I also have many elderly friends who have had polio and mumps and have to cope with shingles. Shingles are AWFUL, and post polio syndrome is also horrible. Just surviving the initial disease doesn't mean your troubles are over. Also my cousin is deaf because my aunt had measles while pregnant. I had a woman tell me that she chose not to vac because "these used to be perfectly normal diseases and they were no big deal" but I found that argument to be a little ingenious and naive.
I'm not saying that anyone is wrong or right here, I'm just hoping that by describing my own process that you'll get a sense of some things that you need to weigh for yourself. My friends also have had major happiness with the Sears alt schedule. Once they got their pediatrician to admit that it was for admin scheduling ease that they gave so many shots at once, he agreed that he would give Olive her shots more gradually. Kristen had to really get in his face though, she pretty much had to say, "look buddy, I'm not going to not vaccinate, I just want to make it one at a time, ok?"
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 1:30 PMThanks, Chris!
I was going to post these links myself but it's been busy at work.
I'm pro-vaccine and have immunized all three of my kids. I did lots of research and decided that was what I thought was best and healthiest for my kids. I also would love to travel and I feel much more comfortable with my kids having been vaccinated against some of the diseases you can contract more easily in other countries.
I have to say that my kids are all very healthy and have never been ill in any way other than your standard cold viruses. I believe vaccines are safe and effective and I wouldn't change my mind if I could.
I also read the Dr. Sears vaccine book and found it very informative and eye opening. My friend is doing one of the alternative vac schedules and has been very happy with it. She goes to Kaiser and her doc liked it so much she offers it to all of the parents she comes across that are unsure about vaccinating their children.
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Re: please school me on the whole immunization controversy
Wed, January 7, 2009 - 10:04 PMAlso, in additon to the book (which I highly recommend and will say for a "medical" book was pretty easy to read) check out
www.askdrsears.com
and go to the vaccine section which should have the most up to date info. Also, there is a section that has Pedi's who are willing to let your baby be their patient if you choose not to vaccinate or do the limited schedule. Like Yuni said, Dr. Sears is Pro-vaccine but understands not everyone is... and the majority of Pedi's out there are NOT willing to be your doctor if you choose not to vaccinate.
I had mixed feelings myself and after reading the book, decided to do the spread it out monthly schedule (which most Pedi's are ok with) for our girl.