Dangerous Behaviors

topic posted Wed, January 16, 2008 - 5:53 PM by  Kisaya Rayne
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My four-year-old has finally crossed the line with me. Corde had been pushing my buttons through this whole deployment, but usually she pushes a bit, annoys me, sees that Mommy is a lot less fun of a person when she's annoyed, so she stops. Today was different. Today she did something that's beyond breaking what few rules I have in my house. Normally if I need to take a nap, I put the baby somewhere safe to play, like his playpen or his exersaucer if he doesn't want to sleep. Corde, being the big girl in the house, gets to play quietly or watch television. I don't worry about her too much because she respects what few rules I have when I'm napping. Just be nice enough not to wake me up unless it's important, and stay inside the house. She knows she's not allowed outside unless I'm sitting in the living room where I can hear her in the back yard. It works out really well for us, or did.

Today I woke from my nap to hear someone knocking on my door. They were playing in the playground behind the houses here and Corde came out. When they asked where her mom was, she told them she was taking a nap. They eventually had to go home because it was getting dark and wanted to make sure I knew where she was. I never knew the girl left the house! She knows she's not allowed to leave the house when I'm asleep. As much as it's a safe neighborhood, kidnappings do happen. She could get hurt doing something stupid and I may never know. It's just not safe for her to be outside alone. She's not old enough for that and I could get in a lot of trouble on post as well. I don't think they let you have your kids outside unattended until they're eight, which she is definitely not. We had a talk about this over the summer when she went outside before I'd gotten out of bed. We haven't had any problems since, and I remind her when I do take naps that she isn't allowed to go outside until I wake up.

Well, Corde and I had a little chat about why she went to the playground and why I was so upset. She told me I'm not allowed to be upset because she didn't get hurt. She told me no one would ever hurt her and no one would take her away. She said I wasn't allowed to be mad at her. I wasn't allowed to be scared because there were no monsters out there. She wasn't scared, so I wasn't allowed to be scared. I tried to explain it to her in terms she could understand, like when she gets scared and upset when I leave her in the car to run in and grab something from the house and I take too long, but she said that it's different. She's scared then. I'm not allowed to be scared. She shouldn't be in trouble because she didn't do anything bad. Nothing bad happened. That's teenager logic...

I think that's what upsets me more than anything else, that she doesn't think that the rule is valid. She's suddenly decided the talks everyone's had with her on "stranger danger" doesn't mean anything because she's never been kidnapped or hurt. I don't want her to have to learn by being kidnapped or hurt. I don't know if I could ever live with myself. In this day and age, I don't even know that she'd come out of it alive if it happened. I just don't know how I can get through to her how important this is!

And what gets me even more than that is there's nothing I can do about it! I've tried everything with her. I've even gotten so frustrated and fed up because she wouldn't listen that I tried spanking for a little while, which really didn't work because she thought it was the funniest thing in the world. Obviously I couldn't have been spanking her hard enough to make a difference if she was just laughing about it, but my goal wasn't to hurt her. When that didn't work, I tried going with the whole learning by natural consequences. She's learned well by seeing how her friends don't want to play with her anymore when she's mean. When her actions have consequences, she follows the rules so much better. It's been great. She's learned to stop pushing my buttons because an annoyed Mommy is not a fun Mommy. She's learned that when she respects the rules that are given to her, she gets more privileges, but when she can't respect the rules, they get taken away, and it's always directly related to the action. She stays up all night watching television loudly and keeps everyone up, the television goes off and she has to go to her room. If she's quiet and respectful, I don't mind that she falls asleep in front of the television if she's having a hard time sleeping one night. If she can listen to the instructions and can follow the rules of safety, she can help me cook, otherwise she can't. I don't know how to deal with this. I can't exactly lock her in her room so she can't get out if she wakes up earlier than I do. I can go without taking naps, as miserable as that may make me, but it's not her fault I can't sleep at night. That's my problem. I'm really tempted to lock and chain the back gate on the yard so she can't just run off to the playground when she's outside. If I could lock the back door so she couldn't get out, I'd do that too. She obviously can't be trusted with a back door that she can let herself out and she can't be trusted in the back yard because this isn't the first time she's run off to the park, though when I can hear her do it, it often gets cut off that much sooner. I just don't know what to do. I feel bad chaining the back yard shut. I feel bad about looking for a way to prevent her from opening the back door and letting herself out, but at four years old, she's not old enough to go to the playground alone. It may be close enough that I can watch her from the door to my driveway, but I can't see or hear her from the house, especially if I'm asleep. It's just not safe. And what happens when she decides the playground is not enough fun and decides to wander around the neighborhood with the other kids that are allowed to play there unattended? Some of those kids are right around her age. I don't feel comfortable with my four year old wandering off on her own, especially when she doesn't tell anyone, or worse, lies about it and tries to tell me I did tell her she could go!

I just don't know what to do. It could be up to three weeks until my husband gets home and until then, I've got to do it alone. Corde's sudden decision to act up is really getting me burnt out and this is really the thing that broke it for me. It's one thing for her to throw a fit every time we leave the house because I won't take her to the places she wants to go (usually because the people she wants to see aren't home or aren't in the mood for company, otherwise I'd be happy to). If I leave her in the car for anything more than thirty seconds, even if she knows where I'm going and what I'm doing, I come out to her screaming and wailing that I left her and she hates me now. I've dealt with her taking everything away from the baby to the point where he's crying and inconsolable because he's got nothing left to play with since Corde won't let him play with her toys and keeps taking his because she wants to play with them. I don't know what's gotten into her. It's not like I don't have much time for her. Now that the baby's decided he can go play on his own without hanging on me, I've had a lot more time for Corde. She's been visiting with friends as much as usual. I hadn't been getting any more stressed out until she'd started acting out like this. It's come completely out of the blue. It's like one day she just woke up and decided that she's going to do everything in her power to make everyone else miserable and has been that way ever since. I just don't know what to do. The rest of it I can handle. Yeah, she's annoying me and upsetting the baby, but at least she's not hurting herself or anyone else, but this last stunt was just dangerous, especially since they're looking for a kidnapper in the area. It's not even like I let her go to the playground on her own and the rule was taken away because of the kidnapper. She was never allowed to go. This was always a rule. I don't know...I'm just not sure where to go from here. I'm just at wit's end.
posted by:
Kisaya Rayne
Austin
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  • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

    Wed, January 16, 2008 - 6:00 PM
    don't feel bad about preventing her from opening that door! I have hooks on every door I don't want my daughter to open without my supervision. Kids will not always think rationally and almost never consider safety. If need be just lock the door during your nap, and unlock it when you wake up. But the "bad" you feel about that would pale in comparison to the bad you would feel if something happened to your toddler while she wandered alone outside.
  • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

    Wed, January 16, 2008 - 6:33 PM
    I agree. I would have a lock on the gate and the door tomorrow. It sounds like she's really testing boundaries. I don't plan on spanking my daughter, but maybe taking away something else she likes would cause her to be more receptive to your rules. TV or dessert or whatever. Or you could try rewarding her when she is nice to the baby. I would probably try that first. Maybe give her little jobs she can help you with, and tell her you need her to be your "big helper" until daddy gets home. I'm not there yet with my daughter. Sounds challenging.
    • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

      Thu, January 17, 2008 - 11:11 AM
      We've tried the big helper thing. That's what we did when the baby was first born because it got her involved with the baby. I think it's one of the reasons it's taken her this long to act out towards the baby. I think part of the reason she's acting out against the baby now is he's old enough to get into her stuff. She's not allowed to play with any choking hazard toys in the living room anymore because she'd leave them all over the floor when she was done playing with them and I got tired of taking them out of the baby's mouth and the four hour fight to get her to put her toys away when she was done. I'm tempted to take all those toys away from her because she's not cleaning up after herself and they're not safe for the baby. I know that will only make her more upset with the baby, even if I tell her that it's because she doesn't get to keep the toys if she can't be responsible with them. I'm just not willing to take the risk. She also doesn't like it when the baby plays with her toys, but she feels that she should be able to play with the baby's toys whenever she wants, even if it means taking it from him. I don't know what happened to her manners with sharing, but it's just more testing and challenges. In reality, I know with the baby, it's just a sibling rivalry thing. She's so used to everything in this house being hers that now she's getting upset at always having to share. It was different before the past month or so because Aris would never be further than two or three feet away from me or he'd cry, crawl over, and want to be picked up, but now he's starting to adventure again. As a result, he's getting into everything of hers that she doesn't pay attention to, and even interrupts her when she's playing. No matter how many times I tell her that if she doesn't want him to bother her, she needs to go play in her room because he's not allowed in there, she still insists on bringing her toys out where he can bother her.

      I know part of the problem is also that Daddy hasn't been able to call since New Years day after calling once or twice a week for three weeks in a row. The military has botched things up so badly right now that the soldiers in Kuwait are barely getting enough time to do a drive by call in as they get to Kuwait and again when they get on the plane. My husband, however, has been in Kuwait since mid-December and isn't going to be getting home until February at this rate. He's not getting to call because apparently the people who are going home are more important than the people who are going to be stuck there for quite some time. Unfortunately, I can tie Corde's bad behavior getting worse and worse from about one week after his last call. This is typical for Daddy's little princess....
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    Re: Dangerous Behaviors

    Wed, January 16, 2008 - 7:42 PM
    yeah & not just the deadbolts, put sliding locks up high, where she couldn't reach them even if she were standing on a chair. it's a matter or your little girl's safety, so it's not imprisonment. think about your windows, too. it sounds crazy, but think like a kid for a minute. if she were desperate to get outside, how could she do it? then take preventative measures.
    • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

      Thu, January 17, 2008 - 10:59 AM
      Thankfully, with the windows, she can't open them. I can barely open them. However, with the rest of it, it's not my property, so I can't modify it. It's military housing on top of that, and they won't change anything on my property unless it's hazardous. Unfortunately, making adjustments to keep a child in the house isn't a priority because it's too much money. I also don't want to change anything with the doors because I don't want to be responsible for replacing them when we move out of here.
  • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

    Thu, January 17, 2008 - 9:18 AM
    I dont want to underestimate your concern and worry...but Id like to offer a different perspective. It sounds to me like Corde isnt trying to push your buttons or Act Out, or anything devious at all. I can see how she is at an age where she is testing her own boundaries and freedom and way of being in the world. I think its healthy for a child to not fear the world, and though I understand that terrible things happen and you just never know whats out there, instilling fear into a child does more harm thatn good. It has been my experience and my observation that we tned to create the situations we fear most, we magnetize circumstances into our lives based on what we feel most strongly about...whether positive or negative. So though it is imperative to speak to your daughter about the reasons you dont want her to do certain things, at her age I wouldnt expect her to understand and use adult logic, and I also wouldnt want to make her fearful of all sort of scenarios that she doesnt even understand yet.
    I think, from knowing your situation thru previous posts and messages, that your daughter is feeling the pressures of your life and situation as much or more than you are, and her behaviors are reflecting that. If you need to put a lock on your door that she cant reach, thats not a bad thing.......but I personally wouldnt go as far as to ingrain fear into her regarding her world. Its perfectly reasonalble, IMO, for her to NOT see a reason to fear what she is doing.....and its also reasonable for her to not view the world as dangerous. To me that speaks volumes about how secure you have made her feel in her world. Thats great! So until your man comes home and can help you out, do what you need to do withought feeling guilty, but also realize that shes in the same boat as you and just trying to find a way to express the chaotic energy inside.....and if experimenting with real or percieved danger, or testing her boundaries is a part of that, I'd try and make her feel confident in those things while at the same time doing what you as a mama have to do to keep her protected.

    I hope that wasnt too drawn out, lol.
    Puella
    • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

      Thu, January 17, 2008 - 10:57 AM
      Your right, she wasn't doing it to push my buttons or act out. I know exactly when she's pushing buttons because I know she deliberately does things that annoy me, like hanging on me to the point I can't so much as move. She and I will have that argument many times over the years. It's just part of who she is. It's testing how much I can put up with before I snap. While I've learned not to snap and yell at her, she does get to see that I'm not a whole lot of fun when she's driving me nuts. I don't play with her when she's driving me nuts. I don't do the things she really wants me to when she's driving me crazy unless it's a need. I tend to tell her, "Go away! I'm annoyed and until I'm feeling in a little more of a mood to deal with people nicely, I'm taking a time-out!" She doesn't like that very much. However, I know she still does it because of how her dad acts with her. She annoys him again and again and eventually he just snaps, which on the days she bugs the heck out of him, is usually the only attention she gets. She's learned if she wants to have Daddy pay attention to her when he's not in the mood to play, she's got to bug him to no end. A LOT of what I'm dealing with her, acting out and button pushing wise is a direct result of my husband's actions when he was the stay at home dad. That I can deal with and he's going to have to work on that when he gets back.

      I really don't want to make Corde think the world is a dangerous place. I do want her to know that not everyone is nice. Sometimes there are scary and bad people out there. I don't want her to worry about everyone, but sometimes I get scared, so I'd feel better if I could see where she is because then I know she's okay. It's like when I leave her in the car for two minutes while I run in the house, or leave her at home while I walk the whole block to the mailbox. Sometimes that's scary for her. She knows she's safe, but sometimes people get scared over silly things, and that's okay. I'd like her to understand that it's about me getting scared, not so much about someone trying to hurt her. I want her to understand that there's a reason why she needs to stay near me. I just don't know how to communicate to her that she can't do these things without the world turning into a dark and scary place.

      And it's not like I don't know why she left. She likes to play in the back yard with the dog. When she goes out into the back yard, if there's a kid in the playground out back, she likes to go play with them. Thus far she's done it to me three times when we're getting in the car to go somewhere. I'm putting the baby in the car and she just takes off to the playground. When I make her come back to get in the car, I ask her why she ran off and she tells me that I told her she could, which is a complete lie. I don't know why she's trying to convince me I said things that I didn't, but that's got to stop happening.
      • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

        Fri, January 18, 2008 - 11:17 AM
        I was reading a wonderful discussion recently about kids and lying and there were some interesting ideas--mainly that one of the reasons kids 'lie' is that they are trying to remake the world as they want it to be. She really wants it to be OK for her to go outside and play so she thinks if you told her it would be OK you wouldn't be so upset so she tells you waht she thinks will help make everything OK. I'm learning not to look at lying as some kind of evil trait in my kid, just to see that it's a way for them to reshape the world, and if they're trying so hard to reshape the world to make themselves comfortable, what can we do to really help them reshape it? Could you make sure to spend the morning outside with her sometimes? Could you go ahead and put those locks on the door and worry about whatever consequences there are later? The price of a lock seems worth the peace of mind it will bring you. It seems like trying to get heavy handed, punishing her, taking away things she loves, would just add to her anxiety. She wants to live in a world where it's Ok for her to go out to play. I think you can help her do that without pretending that nothing bad ever happens. I know you're overwhelmed and maybe this isn't helpful, but those were my thoughts. Get a deadbolt, regardless of how the powers that be feel about it, or even just one of those spring loaded hook and eye jobbies you can install yourself in ten minutes and install it at the top of the door. When you leave you can wood putty the holes and paint over them, no one will ever know.

        I know you're in a tough spot and I know I'm not in your shoes but I really, really believe you can find ways for both you and Corde to get your needs met peacefully, without punishments, coercion or threats. I have faith in you!
        • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

          Fri, January 18, 2008 - 11:20 AM
          P.S. I think you can also just say 'I need to know where you are, it's really important to me'. I don't think you necessarily have to go into a whole thing about why or the dangers out there because she doesn't see those dangers and I think you probably don't really want her to see them. Don't try to scare her into sticking close to you, foster that relationship in which you work hard to meet her needs and she does the same for you. Then, when you tell her you really need her to stick by you because it makes you feel safe, that might be enough of a reason for her to do it. It also might not because she's four and being outside is fun! But it's a much easier reason to process than a bogey man she doesn't believe in. At least that's what I'm thinking.
        • Re: Dangerous Behaviors

          Fri, January 18, 2008 - 7:37 PM
          I'd never thought about the lies that way. I didn't ever really think she was doing it to be bad or a nightmare. She seems to be doing it out of innocent intent, like saying she didn't do things that I saw her do. It's like she's trying to test me and see if I'll let hr get away with it, like when she throws trash on the floor and I ask her to pick it up. Her first instinct is to say "I didn't throw anything on the floor." It seems like she thinks that if she said it wasn't her, then I'll just assume that it wasn't and she'll get away with it. It doesn't work, so I think she's slowly learning. I'm sure it also doesn't help that she's being raised around a lot of Pagans that keep giving her the idea that anything is possible as long as you believe in it strongly enough and that you can change your reality. I have to wonder whether that has an impact too.

          I think I'll have to look more into that subject. It sounds like an interesting perspective on child behavior.

          It's funny, but I really think things will be better when my husband gets home. I know a lot of people say those things and it's never the case, but I think this time it is. I was spending time with a friend of mine and her husband. Her husband was able to get Corde to listen to him without a problem. I've noticed she behaves better with the daddies in her life (and they have to be daddies, because men without children aren't daddies and apparently can't be her Daddy's friend...don't know why...) than she does for just about anyone else. It's very odd. I think it goes back to her being Daddy's little princess...
          • kt
            kt
            offline 23

            Re: Dangerous Behaviors

            Thu, January 24, 2008 - 8:26 AM
            She could also be learning from your examples. You have alot of rules placed on her. They also stem from your needs, as in, put in place because of something that you need (like napping)., and she may not feel she is being considered. So she is making up her rules that fit her needs.

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